Satish Kumar, a British citizen of Indian origin, was an extraordinary destiny. Jain monk at the age of nine years, a tireless walker for Nuclear Disarmament received at the White House, environmental activist editor of the magazine Resurgence , inspired by his encounters with the deepest spiritual masters of his time, he presents education of his life in an autobiographical book upsetting, You are therefore I am (published in the collection "The spirit of openness" Belfond). Meeting with an exceptional man, a disciple of Gandhi, around the non-violence and spiritual ecology. Satish Kumar : The subtitle of the book You are therefore I am . A declaration of dependence is an idea rooted in the Buddhist tradition, that of "co-dependent emergence. The true Buddhist term "codependency," because the notion of being together is stronger and more humble than in the term "interdependence".
Nicolas Inca : This notion of dependency is illustrated in your book with a holistic approach, combining a trinity of Earth, Soul and Society. Understand how these three levels of existence?
SK: We are primarily dependent on the Earth, the source of life. We come from and return to earth. It is a symbolic representation of the natural world and the entire existence. The Earth is the ultimate, the cosmos, and the Soul is the spiritual quality, intimate, closest to you. As a seed is the intimate and the ultimate tree, everything comes from that seed, the soul. Then, the Company, the human community is the bridge between Earth and Soul. The concept of dependency is to make us come down to modern times and leave the idea of Cartesian ego cogito ergo sum: I think therefore I am.
ND: We are here in France, the country of the philosopher Rene Descartes. You translate the sentence in a humorous way: "You are, therefore I am." What about non-duality or absence of ego?
SK: "I think therefore I am" is a dualistic idea. I think in my head, my spirit, my self, that exist independently of the world. Descartes was a dualist, Buddhism is holistic. I wish that France leaves Descartes for a more Buddhist! In this incredible sentence the word "I" appears twice. It is an egocentric and dualistic, which separates mind from matter, while Buddhism connects them, one can not exist without the other.
ND: You've learned during your childhood with your mother or your teacher Jains?
SK: Yes, Jainism and Buddhism are very similar. The founder of Jainism, a contemporary of Buddha, Mahavira was called. He taught non-violence, compassion toward nature, others, oneself. Living things are not there solely for the natural resources to humans, but have intrinsic value. Trees exist in their own right. These are not objects which can use at will. American Christian theologian Thomas Berry, said that the universe is not a collection of objects but a communion of subjects. The trees are not objects, the earth is not an object but a subject. We must abandon this idea such as operator, for the use, benefit and comfort of humans. All living beings are our relatives, our family members. The earth is our home. It could be called "Planet Chez Soi". Jain is teaching, my mother, but Buddhist as I later learned by meeting Chogyam Trungpa.
ND: Who is your Chogyam Trungpa?
SK: I think that Trungpa Rinpoche was one of the greatest representatives of this holistic world view, between ecology and spirituality. He came to Tibet because of the exile as the Dalai Lama, arrived in the West but he realized that here was the greatest luck. He seized the opportunity to teach Buddhism, spiritual thought, since the West is too busy with materialism. Since the Enlightenment and the advent of reason, we have forgotten that science is a way of knowing the world. The intuition, spirituality and wisdom are other ways of knowing. There are many avenues for exploration of life, science is only one. That's the idea promulgated by Chogyam Trungpa and widespread. Nowadays, the same idea is echoed by Thich Nhat Hahn and the Dalai Lama. These three teachers came together to link ecological visions, spiritual and social. It is through them that I have developed this new trinity Earth and Soul Society.
ND: Could you talk more before your deep commitment to what you call "reverential ecology" and in what Fritz Schumacher called "Buddhist economics". How to live in peace with our environment?
SK: Since Western industrialization, the progress and development became a kind of war against nature. We're not in the sense of national nature, but against it, we try to conquer and exploit it as an enemy. When working on a small scale, then you have a space to live in harmony with the natural world, human and spiritual, which is both greener and fairer. It is a "right livelihood" to use the Buddhist term traditional society where industrial employment talks. People should not seek a "job" but a lifestyle fair, which comes from an inner calling. You want to do something with your creativity, that meets the needs of others, and work becomes a spiritual practice as a way to serve humanity. Therefore you may receive from nature, as a gift with gratitude. India and China, being Buddhist countries, however, have forgotten Buddhist economics and follow the Western model that captures the nature and causes of disasters. Global warming, global poverty, social injustice and the crisis, Western societies are facing because taken in an industrial scale. We create a very dangerous situation. This can not continue. Economy Buddhism is a real key for the future welfare of humanity.
ND : Satish Kumar, you have experienced great spiritual leaders, who fought for justice and freedom in a non-violent. How can we apply nonviolence to change attitudes and help the world effectively?
SK : Mahatma Gandhi, Vinoba Bhave, J. Krishnamurti, Martin Luther King, Fritz Schumacher, Bertrand Russell, all these people I describe in the book - and my mother, of course! My mother was my first and greatest master. All these people are a source of light, in my life but also in society. They made sure to keep his health in our world. Mahatma Gandhi, Chogyam Trungpa, the Dalai Lama reminds us that we are not in the world for material possessions and economic growth, but we are on earth for the welfare of mankind. Alas the balance is upset and we do more than external possessions, not enlightenment and inner peace. Mahatma Gandhi called the Power of Nonviolence "the power of the soul." All great masters have taught us that it is possible to create a better world only through nonviolence. When I went to the United States when Martin Luther King was alive, his country did not recognize the right to vote to blacks. And fifty years later, there is a Black in the White House! This change of consciousness has come through non-violence, the thousands of demonstrators for civil rights, who have made this change. Thus, the power of non-violence is the greatest of all.
Interview by Nicolas Inca
To go further:
www.schumachercollege . org.uk
This article once will not hurt, is not directly in our horizon Psychology and Meditation, but it was a good meeting with Satish Kumar, also I will enjoy doing anyway!
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